Tru-line for Alignments
Printed From: West Coast Fieros
Category: Buy / Sell
Forum Name: Bad Vendors
Forum Description: If you have a bad experience with a Vendor this is the place to tell the world
URL: http://www.westcoastfieros.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1647
Printed Date: 25 April 2024 at 1:22pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Tru-line for Alignments
Posted By: Dawg
Subject: Tru-line for Alignments
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 1:18am
I want to let everyone know about a really great place to get your wheel alignments done. I've known Mike for over 20 years now. He owns Tru-line Autobody Frame and Wheel in Port Moody.
This guy is old school. His specialty is frame straightening so he really knows how things are lined up to work right. He didn't seem to be right up to date with some of the after market suspension add ons that are available like adjustable ball joints and so on.
Just bring him some new adjustable parts and tell him to get it all working right and he will.
He just did our Fiero and even though I didn't want to spend the money to get everything perfect, he told me what was off and I decided it wasn't important for now.
I handles WAY better than before the engine swap WOW! 140 KPH+ like it's on rails.
Cheers,
Damien
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You dream it up....I'll make it
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Replies:
Posted By: Fire451
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 10:49am
yea i have known mike for over 10 years and
he is one of the only guys that i will let work
on my cars
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 11:37am
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So what does he charge for a 4-wheel alignment on a Fiero if nothing needs to be replaced?
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Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 4:56pm
The bill was just over $100 taxes in. This is a basic Toe in alignment. He said my rear struts were a tiny bit off in chamber and he had loosened the bolts and moved it as much as he could using stock parts.
I said that was fine.
The frontend had a caster issue on one side. That would have cost more because the upper control arm has to be unbolted several times to get it perfect. Caster makes your stearing wheel spin back to center when you let go. It typically doesn't effect handling unless it's way off.
So again, I said it could wait till summer.
DG
 Patrick wrote:
So what does he charge for a 4-wheel alignment on a Fiero if nothing needs to be replaced?
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You dream it up....I'll make it
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Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 21 December 2009 at 6:31am
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Caster also makes your car stable and affects the Camber angle as the car moves up and down.
Tee hee, all my alignments are free while I'm at BCIT. 
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Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan.
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 21 December 2009 at 10:58pm
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Dawg wrote:
The bill was just over $100 taxes in. This is a basic Toe in alignment. |
Thanks Damien.
Romeo wrote:
Tee hee, all my alignments are free while I'm at BCIT.  |
Tristan, if you ever need to, ahem... borrow my GT, just let me know. 
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Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 22 December 2009 at 7:24am
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lol
Mine are, but I can't bring in other's vehicles. 
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Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan.
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 22 December 2009 at 8:00am
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Fire451 wrote:
yea i have known mike for over 10 years and
he is one of the only guys that i will let work
on my cars |
Thats not, Thee Mike, as in Mr Coffee Mike aka Mr. A$$hole is it.
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Capt Fiero
88 Fiero GT 5spd V6
Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd.
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Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 22 December 2009 at 8:54am
Can't be - Damien says he's known him for over 20 years. "Our" Mike just isn't that old! Unless he started doing car work around grade 5 or so. ;)
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Posted By: Fire451
Date Posted: 22 December 2009 at 5:35pm
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no it is not coffee mike, his name is mike carlassara, he is the one that fixed my 87 after it was stolen and crystals escort
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 03 January 2010 at 12:22am
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Well we need to send this guy some more work and see what comes out of it. If this guy is as great as you both think, I'll make a quick website for him and put it in the Preferred Vendors area.
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Capt Fiero
88 Fiero GT 5spd V6
Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd.
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Posted By: Fire451
Date Posted: 03 January 2010 at 8:11pm
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the address for his shop is 2727 murray st, port moody
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 28 April 2010 at 4:55pm
Hi guys, just checking if this is the right place ?
http://trulineauto.com/ - http://trulineauto.com/
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Posted By: Fire451
Date Posted: 28 April 2010 at 5:26pm
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yep thats the place, only place to go
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 28 April 2010 at 8:56pm
Oooh John I am sure they are going to love your car, in a good way of course, all new suspension parts easy to allighn. Probaby hard to get on the rack though.
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Capt Fiero
88 Fiero GT 5spd V6
Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd.
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 29 April 2010 at 1:18pm
What can I say...
That's why it's called TRU-LINE
Sorry, I had to remove video, got a notice that audio ZZ Top is owned and licensed.
When I have time will add different audio. 
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 29 April 2010 at 1:28pm
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Car-2-Lo wrote:
What can I say...
That's way it's called TRU-LINE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBfpPrp0huo&feature=channel - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBfpPrp0huo&feature=chann el |
Oooo... ZZ Top. I like the music. 
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 29 April 2010 at 2:02pm
Oh Patrick, you're too good to me now 
I'll have to add different audio to video when I have time maybe Jan & Dean
When I drove up to TRU-LINE Shop everybody came out to see the chopper
and asking lots of questions, how it was done. Mike said I do better work than some auto body men
with papers, that was nice, since all work was in a yard with hand tools.
Also Mike said front wheels needed balancing and recommended Circuit Tire for that and I did
that right after since it's just few blocks away.
Mike is a really friendly guy and does a great job, at 51 he looks like he's 31
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 29 April 2010 at 3:15pm
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Car-2-Lo wrote:
I'll have to add different audio to video when I have time maybe Jan & Dean |
NoooooOOOOooOoooooOOOooooOOoooOooooooOOoooooooOoooooo...
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 29 April 2010 at 3:25pm
Patrick wrote:
Car-2-Lo wrote:
I'll have to add different audio to video when I have time maybe Jan & Dean |
NoooooOOOOooOoooooOOOooooOOoooOooooooOOoooooooOoooooo...
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Just joking Pat, I didn't know about owned & licensed and didn't get any notice about the Beach Boys, that weird ? 
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 29 April 2010 at 3:36pm
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Car-2-Lo wrote:
I didn't know about owned & licensed and didn't get any notice about the Beach Boys, that weird ?  |
Yeah, ever since YouTube was bought out by Google, they've been cracking down on the use of copyrighted music. Some songs survive, lots don't.
It really sucks when a video is edited to a certain piece of music and then YouTube deletes (and/or replaces) the audio track of the video! 
[EDIT] John, I notice you've now pulled your video off YouTube. Did they remove your audio or what?
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 29 April 2010 at 4:59pm
No, I removed it before any more notices, I got scared they'll take me away. 
I'll be playing with different audio or maybe I'll just post it without audio
There's no story without audio and bkgd noises are crappy.
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 29 April 2010 at 5:21pm
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That's odd that you got "notices", because when I've tried to use copyrighted music it was detected by YouTube during the video upload process and the audio was immediately deleted.
With no audio left, I didn't bother leaving the video(s) uploaded.
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Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 29 April 2010 at 5:23pm
Just get out a mike - hum the song really well, then overlay the audio track! 
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Posted By: Fire451
Date Posted: 29 April 2010 at 5:37pm
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since I havn't seen the video, hows the car drive now????
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 29 April 2010 at 9:32pm
Fire451 wrote:
since I havn't seen the video, hows the car drive now???? |
Really different, it's like another car, I was so use to fighting with it just to keeping it on the road when flooring it
I'll have you test drive it and feel the difference.
Okay, video is here with different audio (will see how long this will last...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cpUKbD-D6g - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cpUKbD-D6g
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 29 April 2010 at 10:29pm
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Car-2-Lo wrote:
[QUOTE=Fire451]Okay, video is here with different audio (will see how long this will last)...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cpUKbD-D6g - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cpUKbD-D6g |
I don't recognize the song, but it's got a bit of an edge (which is a good thing for your car videos). 
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 29 April 2010 at 11:36pm
Patrick wrote:
Car-2-Lo wrote:
[QUOTE=Fire451]Okay, video is here with different audio (will see how long this will last)...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cpUKbD-D6g - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cpUKbD-D6g |
I don't recognize the song, but it's got a bit of an edge (which is a good thing for your car videos).
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Thank Patrick, you'll like this only because it's from the 80s...
punk band is called "999" and song is "Fun Thing"
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Johnny-B-Good
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 1:29pm
Today I visited Blair and Ang at the Choc. shop, on the way there the chopper was tracking nice and straight but
had that floating feeling to me, now on the way back the rear end feels like it's really floating and swaying back
and forth until I slowed down. It was never like that before.
I called Mike about it, said that everything was checked and was fine.
So now the chopper is not safe to drive anymore, what do you think is wrong now?
Thanks
OLD Johnny Boy
Do you think it's the rear wheel bearings ?
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 2:11pm
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Car-2-Lo wrote:
I called Mike about it, said that everything was checked and was fine.
So now the chopper is not safe to drive anymore...
Do you think it's the rear wheel bearings ? |
Did Mike not check the rear wheel bearings? (Didn't you and Dave just replace them a couple of months ago?)
It's difficult to imagine that something would fail right after having Mike's shop work on the car. Very strange... 
Did you check the tire pressures in case you picked up a nail?
I think if the car continues to feel odd that you should drive back out to Tru-line and have Mike try it for himself.
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 2:50pm
Yep, Dave change bearings, but Clynt said sometimes they only last a week (the cheap ones) that's what I got.
Just came back from another spin and it's worse than ever, it really rocks from side to side at the back and that floating feeling, the chopper
is not tracking flat, it feels like the rear is lifting and rocking and it's not me, I'm on the wagen
Going to check tire pressure now...
Type to you later
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 3:12pm
Okay I'm back, tire pressure is fine, but my blood pressure isn't
I think I just got a bad alignment, the rear is not properly toed in, it's not tracking flat and swaying, rocking
back and forth and building up to more swaying.
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 3:48pm
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When you told Mike about your problem, did he not suggest you bring it back in? If not, that's rather disappointing.
Man oh man, why is it so tough to find a place that can do alignments on these cars without a whole lot of grief? 
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 4:26pm
I called Mike back and told him that the car tracked better before, but now it's worse than ever with that floating, lifting swaying
back and forth from side to side. He said he can't do anything more to it, so I said can you put it back the way it was because it
tracked better and he said sure , but I'll have to pay him, which is okay after all he did do a TRU-LINE fiero specs job.
So the issue is else where now, maybe a bad hub or something?
So there you go
Oh, I forgot to mention this swaying back and forth is a lot more pronounced at highway speed.
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 4:50pm
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What the hell, I don't believe this!!!!
This is the best that he can do???????
Does he not realize that with this kind of attitude that he's just lost all the freakin' business he would've got from all the members of this club???!!!!!
Unfrickenbelieveable!!!!!!!!
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 4:57pm
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I'll be doing another video just joking
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 5:01pm
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John, maybe it's time you and I did another video on the chopper.
This time we'll focus on the fact that it doesn't handle worth a sh*t after having the alignment done at Tru-slime.
Then we'll post that video on YouTube. 
[EDIT] I didn't see your last post when I wrote this!
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 5:10pm
Patrick wrote:
Car-2-Lo wrote:
He said he can't do anything more to it smileys/smiley7.gif">
so I said can you put it back the way it was because it tracked better and he said sure , but I'll have to
pay him  |
What the hell, I don't believe this!!!!
This is the best that he can do???????
Does he not realize that with this kind of attitude that he's just lost all the freakin' business he would've
got from all the members of this club???!!!!!
Unfrickenbelieveable!!!!!!!!
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Mike is a very nice guy, it's not his fault, again something else is wrong, crappy music video ?
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 5:23pm
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Car-2-Lo wrote:
Mike is a very nice guy , but not for come backs |
If I had to choose between one or the other, I think I'd prefer dealing with a jerk who at least stands behind his work.
I still can't believe that this guy wouldn't want to make it right.
Is business that freakin' good that he just doesn't care?
If he's not capable of doing the job right, the least he could do is give your money back. What did he charge for f*cking up your alignment?
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 5:47pm
TRU- LINE $94.95 with taxes $106.35
edit: CLEANED up and I'm sorry from bashing
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 5:57pm
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Car-2-Lo wrote:
TRU-SLIME $94.95 with taxes $106.35 |
This is really disappointing. I've got two Fieros here that need alignments done, and eventually I'll have two more.
I guess I know where I'm not going.
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Posted By: Fire451
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 6:06pm
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I appologise I have never had that problem with him, I agree that is really screwed up that he did that, guess I will goto dales for mine once I get the bags in
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Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 6:14pm
OK!
Before we all run off to fire bomb this place....
I just got off the phone with JC (no, not myself). I had him send me the report showing the alignment specs before & after.
What they've done, is... technically right! But... it's not right for a car with giant fat tires in the rear. It's right for a STOCK car, and uh... this really isn't one.
His old spec would have had the thing dog tracking, with the back end always heading for the curb. This explains why JC was always having to steer to the right to make it go in a straight line. All that fighting it would also put tension on everything (in a bad way), but would make it feel less squirmy.
What they've done now is set it up with 0* of toe in the back. That'd be great for a set of 195's. Not 335's or whatever they are. So what we're going to try is dialing a 'touch' of toe in to the rear and see if that makes it run true again.
So - everyone put down the pick forks and flaming arrows (for the moment).
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Posted By: Fire451
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 6:26pm
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I am only upset at the part that he was not willing to work with john with getting it to drive right, I know that he will not really stop doing an alignment till it is at factory spec which is why I recommended him
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 6:55pm
John when you get the car to John's, I'd say John C but you are both John C. Uhm, how bout when the car gets to the good doctors, do a double check on the adapters. We torqued everything down good when it was here but that was several drives ago, and I don't know if Car-2-Lo has had the wheels off to re-torque the adapters. If the adapters are loose it will cause the entire car to be floaty and the back end to wander all over hell and back.
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Capt Fiero
88 Fiero GT 5spd V6
Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd.
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Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 6:57pm
We sort of talked about that... in my head anyhow, I figured that if the alignment place didn't notice the wheels flopping around.... we'll have to release the angry mob above.
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Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 8:15pm
Ok.....lets all relax.
Jonny boy, did you not notice this wobble right after the job was done? If not, maybe something is indeed loose. Has it been getting even worse? If everything is secure it shouldn't be changing.
Don't get me wrong buddy, if he's not willing to work with his customers anymore, hand me the first pitch fork. But lets not get too mad till we've checked it out a little more....ok?
Let me phone him and see what I can do. I might even go in person because this seems so unusual. If we work with him and try to be understanding, we create an ally that we all could really use.
He has the technical skill and equipment to do the job. It's the people skills he needs to polish.
I'll chime in when I have more.
Damien
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You dream it up....I'll make it
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 8:56pm
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Dr.Fiero wrote:
I just got off the phone with JC... |
Jesus Christ, I hope you called collect!
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Posted By: Dr.Fiero
Date Posted: 01 May 2010 at 9:04am
Patrick wrote:
Jesus Christ, I hope you called collect! |
Nah - he called me. Contrary to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=494XLoEKxgI - HIS hot rod.
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 01 May 2010 at 12:41pm
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Dr.Fiero wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=494XLoEKxgI -
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Posted By: Fire451
Date Posted: 01 May 2010 at 2:10pm
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(this message respectfully removed by me)
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 01 May 2010 at 2:38pm
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Fire451 wrote:
believe it or not there are other kinds of music out there and not everybody likes what you put in your videos but we were civil about it and didn't call you out on it at every chance we get |
Ummm... what's your problem, and who elected you as spokesperson for the "we" you're referring to?
I'm friends with both John Carlo and Tristan. I believe I'm allowed to tease them if I see fit. And they tease me back. Maybe you should ask them if they've been deeply offended before you jump all over me.
What's the point of having a forum if we can't have some fun here?
If you've got a problem with me for whatever reason, perhaps PM me so you and I can discuss it and possibly resolve the issue.
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 02 May 2010 at 10:55am
WEW, what did I start here...
I really didn't want to start club members to take sides, we are all (friends) together in this, all of you are super great guys (and gals)
FIRST : I apologize for overreacting and bashing TRU-LINE, that is so easy to do, Mike is a great guy, the problem might be something else
FLASHBACK...
06' Clynt installed WCF Performance rear coilover kit, Kingsway did the alignment on the stock fiero, handle great.
07' Doing the widebody, I put on the wide 325 tires on the Fiero handle the same, no difference.
08' 3800SC Swap, Dales did the alignment, again it handled great, no difference
09' It stated to show some swaying motion and got worse at end of summer.
10' Well you know the story, when Dave was changing wheel bearings found lose lock nut, so we know how much it was out now.
The younger JC is right, the stock specs don't work for this setup,
After Mike did alignment, the chopper tracks nice and straight, but now it starts to sway from side to side, like the rear end is floating and the
faster you go, the swinging motion gets bigger until I slow down again.
The problem might be elsewhere, maybe cheap rear wheel bearings can't handle the load, I'll do a little toe end and take it from there.
The wide tracking handled great BEFORE and should handle AGAIN.
Again I apologize to Mike (I hate bashers and I was one of them)
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 02 May 2010 at 11:06am
Dawg wrote:
Ok.....lets all relax.Jonny boy, did you not notice this wobble right after the job was done? If not, maybe something is
indeed
loose. Has it been getting even worse? If everything is secure it shouldn't be changing.Don't get me wrong buddy, if he's not willing to work
with
his customers anymore, hand me the first pitch fork. But lets not get too mad till we've checked it out a little more....ok?Let me phone him
and see
what I can do. I might even go in person because this seems so unusual. If we work with him and try to be understanding, we create an ally
that we
all could really use.He has the technical skill and equipment to do the job. It's the people skills he needs to polish.I'll chime in when I have
more.Damien
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Yes you're right and yes I did, but I thought was not bad with fiero driving straight, until it got to highway speed it got really bad swinging from side to side.
If the stock settings are "0" at rear, then like JC says, maybe a little toe in might be a good thing for these fat tires to track at one vanishing point instead of
floating and flopping around road to nowhere, something to try first?
It wasn't like that from start when first I put those fat tires until now.
Please put those pitch forks down, we'll get straighten out !
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 02 May 2010 at 11:11am
Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 02 May 2010 at 1:52pm
Hi friendly members,
Clynt just emailed this....
when i went to the states last wk i got frightened at hwy speeds had to keep it under 80k,
car seemed to be acting as you describe..
stopped at my local shop and had it test driven and the verdict was it just needed an alignment
went to pacific alignment on Clark ,got the car up and lo and behold rr tire moves >1/4 "
and that's with no weight or load on it(imagine how much it moves on throttle)
passenger hub is slightly bent as it scrapes on dust cover lightly.
That was clynt email.
Now me
That's funny yesterday when driving around here I heard scraping on dust cover too !
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 02 May 2010 at 4:17pm
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Car-2-Lo wrote:
I apologize for overreacting and bashing TRU-LINE, that is so easy to do, Mike is a great guy, the problem might be something else .
Again I apologize to Mike (I hate bashers and I was one of them)
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John, I don't understand why you're tripping all over yourself apologizing. Did this or did this not occur?
I suspect what all of us are upset about is not so much that your car doesn't yet handle properly (as anyone can make a mistake), it's that Mike didn't appear to be the least bit interested in finding the problem (according to what we've read in this thread).
It kind of surprises me that he wouldn't know what to do when it comes to aligning wheels on a car with wide tires (if that's indeed what the problem is). It's not like he's brand new at this!
It still isn't too late for Mike to demonstrate that he indeed cares about his customers, and that he'll take the necessary steps required to diagnose and fix an alignment problem. After all, isn't this supposed to be what an alignment shop does?
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 02 May 2010 at 4:41pm
Well, I want to be a nice guy in my golden years, anyway Mike did his job and that's that !
I have a funny feeling it's a bad bearing or my music sucks
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 02 May 2010 at 4:49pm
We really need to find out what is wrong before we can go any further. If I was not working at the moment I would say get it over here and I would look at it.
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Capt Fiero
88 Fiero GT 5spd V6
Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd.
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 02 May 2010 at 5:08pm
Capt Fiero wrote:
We really need to find out what is wrong before we can go any further. If I was not working at
the moment I would say get it over
here and I would look at it. |
You're right about that, that's why I didn't want blame anyone.
Again Mike did his job and nothing more he can do.
Tomorrow I'll jack the car up and have a look.
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 02 May 2010 at 5:38pm
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Car-2-Lo wrote:
...anyway Mike did his job and that's that ! |
Car-2-Lo wrote:
Again Mike did his job and nothing more he can do. |
Did he? Honestly, did he really?
You paid for an alignment and now you have a car that "floats" at highway speed, worse than what it was doing before you took it in for the alignment.
John, I know you're a nice guy and you don't like making waves, but I hate to see you being treated like this.
I'm still hoping that someone who knows Mike can get to the bottom of this. It just doesn't seem right.
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 02 May 2010 at 6:11pm
Patrick wrote:
Car-2-Lo wrote:
...anyway Mike did his job and that's that ! |
Car-2-Lo wrote:
Again Mike did his job and nothing more he can do. |
Did he? Honestly, did he really?
You paid for an alignment and now you have a car that "floats" at highway speed, worse than what it was doing before you took it in for the
alignment.
John, I know you're a nice guy and you don't like making waves, but I hate to see you being treated like this.
I'm still hoping that someone who knows Mike can get to the bottom of this. It just doesn't seem right.
|
I did get treated nice and he did do a great job to Fiero specs, so that will be that and no more bud, I just like to ride the wave and hang 10
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Johnny-B-Good
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 02 May 2010 at 6:35pm
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Okey dokey, I'll say no more.
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Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 02 May 2010 at 10:21pm
John this is certainly not directed at you my friend. It's for all of us to think about.
I'd like to suggest a different way to look at the issues we're discussing in this thread. Many Fiero owners could use some of this advice.
The bottom line is as a group of Fiero owners, we're not in a good bargaining position. We need skilled people to take the time to learn about our needs. I think it's safe to say, that as a group, we are finding it harder and harder to find these people every year.
We simply can't afford to have the attitude that somehow we are in demand and that these shops need us. In this case for sure, I can tell you he doesn't NEED us. We NEED him. Or at the very least someone like him.
Regarding this particular stuation the reality is that unless you go into an alignment shop with your own specs, the guy HAS to go by the book. If your car has special needs because of modifications you've made, it's your responsibility to know what you need. Or, you need to be willing to pay more than the going rate to have the technician try something different.
This can apply to any number of situations we might run into. These cars are different and very few are stock in any way. Makes a technicians job more difficult for sure and someone has to pay for that.
As Fiero owners, we've all chosen to take the road less traveled. That road is paved with money I'm afraid.
DG
-------------
You dream it up....I'll make it
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Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 6:44pm
Video shot at Clynt's shop...
Patrick and Clynt doing a check up after wheel alignment ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBFMLyZ23Wc - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBFMLyZ23Wc
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 7:15pm
Ok spit it out, ball joint was moving, WHY was it moving?
-------------
Capt Fiero
88 Fiero GT 5spd V6
Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd.
|
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 7:16pm
That is insain movment, did they loosen something then forgot to tighten it back up? What in the end was the cause of the movment?
-------------
Capt Fiero
88 Fiero GT 5spd V6
Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd.
|
Posted By: Fire451
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 7:34pm
|
yea come on you can't do this to us, inquiring minds want to know... I hate movies like that, they start, build up and right when it starts to get good the closing credits... then you are left with the WTF feeling
LOL
well Crystal's car is still going there as soon as her new bumper shows up, some idiot broad in a hummer backed into her Kia
|
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 7:37pm
|
The three bolts holding each rear lower ball joint were all loose.
The passenger side was a bit loose.
The nuts on the bolts holding the driver's side ball joint had all backed off a full 1/4".
The driver's side ball joint was just flopping around in its mount.
I should add that the outer tie rods appear to be loose as well, but the movement there paled considerably with what we found elsewhere.
I have nothing positive to say about this situation. Draw your own conclusions, fellas.
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Posted By: Fire451
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 7:59pm
|
i will be talking to Mike when Crystal and I go in there for her car and see what's going on with that, those things should have been caught at the time of the alignment, since part of the alignment process is checking out wether or not the ball joints, tire rods etc are worn out and have movement.
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 8:36pm
I would guess more that someone loosened them to try and adjust the alignment, and then were not re-torqued correctly. They might have been tight enough to hold for a day or 2 and after a few good bumps, started to work there way loose until the final result of the wheels flopping all over hell and back.
-------------
Capt Fiero
88 Fiero GT 5spd V6
Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd.
|
Posted By: clynt
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 8:49pm
why would anyone loosen off lower balljoints ?
is there some adj that i am unaware of??
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 9:08pm
I honestly don't know why, maybe they thought it was like some upper ball joints that have small slots to allow for an extra 1/4 inch of adjustment. I am guessing that Johns had a bit of travel with the nuts backed out, LOL. Some shops just are not familiar with Fiero's enough to do work and not make at mistake. Its a sad thing to say, but if they are used to working on conventional front engine hot rods, or run of the mill Honda's, they just don't understand the Fiero's suspension.
-------------
Capt Fiero
88 Fiero GT 5spd V6
Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd.
|
Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 9:09pm
Capt Fiero wrote:
I would guess more that someone loosened them to try and adjust the alignment, and then
were not re-torqued correctly. They might have been
tight enough to hold for a day or 2 and after a few good bumps, started to work there way loose until the final
result of the wheels flopping all over hell and
back. |
When I left Mike's it felt swaying, floating from side to side and really bad on highway speed. Mike did mention that
the rears where swaying and blamed the wide tires,
but we all know that's not the case. Also I called him the next day saying it was better before.
Mike is a great guy and he did a great alignment job, but failed to check rear end (we all make mistakes).
ADDED NOTE: I did see Dale peeking from the grassy knoll with a wrench (my conspiracy theory)
|
Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 9:20pm
I can't help wondering the same thing Clint. There is no reason why he would have messed with those ball joints. But there they are, ready to fall off.
Are we missing something here?
DG
clynt wrote:
why would anyone loosen off lower balljoints ?
is there some adj that i am unaware of??
|
-------------
You dream it up....I'll make it
|
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 9:24pm
|
Dawg wrote:
Are we missing something here? |
Yeah, I'd say somebody missed something.
Dawg wrote:
There is no reason why he would have messed with those ball joints. |
How about checking them before doing the alignment?
Dawg wrote:
But there they are, ready to fall off. |
Correct.
|
Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 9:25pm
I knew it!
DG.....:)
Car-2-Lo wrote:
ADDED NOTE: I did see Dale peeking from the grassy knoll with a wrench (my conspiracy theory)
|
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You dream it up....I'll make it
|
Posted By: Fire451
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 9:40pm
|
i would say that this is a colossal miss on mikes part, i realize that everybody is human but this was a very serious and possiably deadly one.
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Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 10:06pm
I hear ya.
But there is no way he could have done an alignment with the wheels that loose. That equipment is so sensitive the readings would have been all over the place.
Did he miss the fact that those joints were not properly tightened, it sure looks like it. I'd like to know why they were loose in the first place.
Considering all the little problems John has been having with his suspension lately I think someone needs to go through that car checking every nut and bolt.
DG
Fire451 wrote:
i would say that this is a colossal miss on mikes part, i realize that everybody is human but this was a very serious and possiably deadly one. |
-------------
You dream it up....I'll make it
|
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 10:09pm
|
Dawg wrote:
But there is no way he could have done an alignment with the wheels that loose. |
So what are you suggesting?
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Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 10:42pm
I have no easy answers Patrick. All I know is the wheels were not THAT bad when the alignment was done.
Were the nuts tight at that time? Obviously not. Could Mike have done a better inspection, absolutely.
If the nuts were already loose but the ball joints hadn't totally let go yet, the play might have seemed ok to him. Big tires can make things seem tighter than they are because there's so much rubber on the ground making it hard to wiggle the suspension around.
Lets not forget that Dave just replaced the hubs. No way he would have missed movement like that.
What exactly is going on with his poor car, I have no idea.
DG
Patrick wrote:
Dawg wrote:
But there is no way he could have done an alignment with the wheels that loose. |
So what are you suggesting?
|
-------------
You dream it up....I'll make it
|
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 11:13pm
|
I had a big reply written up and POOF it went away.
Ok the short version.
I was going to mention that I had the car here, and because we were specifically looking for loose parts in the rear suspension, the first thing I did was jack up the back end, and yank the rear wheels around, same as was shown in the video above. Everything at that time was good. We went ahead and did the bearings regardless.
Note this was what, 60-90 days ago, and all was well. (except for the tie rod nut)
Now what strikes me as odd, this was not one bolt, or even 2 or 3, those rear ball joints were 6 bolts, 3 on either side, and for all 6 bolts to come loose at nearly the same time, 6 bolts that are not even interconnected (meaning not holding the same part or relying on the other side to hold it on) to all come loose, it really makes me wonder?
Now in my opinion, whats done is done, lets get those bolts tightened up, then check all the other bolts, and move on with life. Heck if they are not locking nuts, maybe get a drop of red lock-tite on them. However to my knowledge all ball joint bolts are suppose to be locking or castle nuts.
-------------
Capt Fiero
88 Fiero GT 5spd V6
Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd.
|
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 11:13pm
|
Dawg wrote:
All I know is the wheels were not THAT bad when the alignment was done. |
Damien, with all due respect, you are in no position to make such a statement. None of us "know" what the hell is going on here.
Not only did John feel a problem with his car the very first time he reached any appreciable speed after having the "alignment" done, but he has barely driven the car since then as he's scared of how it feels.
Those are self-locking nuts on the ball joint bolts. The nuts do not spin freely on the bolts. There has been no opportunity for those self-locking nuts to get that loose on the bolts in the very short time since leaving Mike's shop.
|
Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 11:43pm
Good point.....what are the odds?
It would be interesting to hear how it handles now that the ball joints are tight.
Capt Fiero wrote:
Now what strikes me as odd, this was not one bolt, or even 2 or 3, those rear ball joints were 6 bolts, 3 on either side, and for all 6 bolts to come loose at nearly the same time, 6 bolts that are not even interconnected (meaning not holding the same part or relying on the other side to hold it on) to all come loose, it really makes me wonder?
|
-------------
You dream it up....I'll make it
|
Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 11:49pm
Another good point.......
DG
Patrick wrote:
Those are self-locking nuts on the ball joint bolts. The nuts do not spin freely on the bolts. There has been no opportunity for those self-locking nuts to get that loose on the bolts in the very short time since leaving Mike's shop.
|
-------------
You dream it up....I'll make it
|
Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 06 May 2010 at 8:01am
Dawg wrote:
Good point.....what are the odds?It would be interesting to hear how it handles now that the ball joints are tight.
Capt
Fiero wrote:
Now what strikes me as odd, this was not one bolt, or even 2 or 3, those rear ball joints were 6 bolts, 3 on either side, and
for all 6 bolts to come loose at nearly the same time, 6 bolts that are not even interconnected (meaning not holding the same part
or relying on the other side to hold it on) to all come loose, it really makes me wonder?
|
|
Wonder indeed, from side to side, that's why I took it there for an alignment in the first place. The nuts must of been getting loose
before Mike did the alignment, but DID NOT check up on that?
We both talked about how the rear was wondering and he actually blamed the wide front tires ( 245s) first that the rear wasn't
following the wide fronts properly, so there you go
Yes, it did tracked straight when left Mikes shop, but it still wondered, we now know why !
Yes, with all nuts tight it really feels great again and under power no more swaying, that was my biggest problem swaying under power
So now RAM-BUNK-SHUSH is probably BLACKLISTED from both alignment shops and it's there FAULT, it's getting to (loose) NUTS ?
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Posted By: Dawg
Date Posted: 06 May 2010 at 11:55am
I'm glad she's working ok now. You should show up at the tech session we're having soon so we can give it a once over.Maybe a twice over too.
DG
-------------
You dream it up....I'll make it
|
Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 07 May 2010 at 12:16pm
Dawg wrote:
I'm glad she's working ok now. You should show up at the tech session we're having soon so we can give it a once over.Maybe a twice over too.DG |
Okay, thanks bud, I'll be there to help out too (maybe work on Capt's nose if not finished yet)
A little final note, so the problem was loose nuts all along, always swaying to the right under power because it was lined up wrong that way (but work better for that time).
When Mike did the alignment it was really swaying from side to side now because it was lined up straight now (as it should be), but didn't check rear end and missed the loose nuts.
By the time Patrick and Clynt checked it out, the nuts where well on it's way looser to a danger zone and I didn't even know it, I was so surprised!
That's the story so far, sad but true, it started long before and everyone missed it, I'm not blaming anyone, things happen that way sometimes.
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Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 07 May 2010 at 12:31pm
|
Car-2-Lo wrote:
By the time Patrick and Clynt checked it out, the nuts where well on it's way loser to a danger zone and I didn't even know it, I was so surprised! |
Worthwhile mentioning one more time...
Patrick wrote:
Those are self-locking nuts on the ball joint bolts. The nuts do not spin freely on the bolts. There has been no opportunity for those self-locking nuts to get that loose on the bolts in the very short time since leaving Mike's shop. |
In other words, there's little doubt the bolts were already that loose while John's car was in Mike's shop.
Anyone can make a mistake. However, the fact that Mike refused to double-check anything after John complained is unforgiveable.
Mike's irresponsible brush-off could've led to our good friend John being killed.
|
Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 07 May 2010 at 12:52pm
Patrick wrote:
Car-2-Lo wrote:
By the time Patrick and Clynt checked it out, the nuts where well on it's way loser to a danger zone and I didn't even
know it, I was so
surprised! |
Worthwhile mentioning one more time...
Patrick wrote:
Those are self-locking nuts on the ball joint bolts. The nuts do not spin freely on the bolts. There has been no opportunity for those
self-locking nuts to get
that loose on the bolts in the very short time since leaving Mike's shop. |
In other words, there's little doubt the bolts were already that loose while John's car was in Mike's shop.
Anyone can make a mistake. However, the fact that Mike refused to double-check anything after John complained is unforgiveable.
Mike's irresponsible brush-off could've led to our good friend John being killed.
|
Thanks Pat, but that's okay, at my age I'm ready for the bone yard, but RAM-BUNK-SHUSH has to live on
|
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 07 May 2010 at 1:08pm
|
Car-2-Lo wrote:
That's okay, at my age I'm ready for the bone yard, but RAM-BUNK-SHUSH has to live on |
It's debatable how much longer you or RAM-BUNK-SHUSH might've lived on (if you continued to drive the car) with the way that ball joint was flopping around.
Fortunately for Mike, you appear to be taking this very lightly. This is however, serious business. Other people in this situation might've had Mike and/or his shop charged with http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Gross+negligence - Gross Negligence .
The very least Mike should do is apologize profusely and refund what you paid him for the "alignment".
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Posted By: Bassman
Date Posted: 08 May 2010 at 12:38pm
|
Wow...I know I have not been around much, but I have had success with Dales, and taking almost 30 minutes to read this post, I would give this guy a shot based on my car spec and the bonus that he's only 15 minutes away from me.
Dales know my car, I had one issue, but they bent over backwards, fixed the problem, then when I had to replace my upper ball joints...only charged me $100 cash to do this. Now to me that's good business, but it has to go both ways...you treat people with respect, 99% of the time you will receive this back and all parties can be happy.
Cheers...
-------------
Brian (Bassman)
86 GT Fastback 3.2L
2013 Mazda3 Sport GS SkyActive
[IMG]http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u243/Bassman68/BassmanSignature.png">
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Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 08 May 2010 at 2:32pm
|
Well Brian get your car in there and give us some feedback. Might want to get it aligned with the slicks on the car, just so they have a better reference point when they set it up.
-------------
Capt Fiero
88 Fiero GT 5spd V6
Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd.
|
Posted By: Bassman
Date Posted: 08 May 2010 at 7:07pm
|
lol...I am like John with all new, steering pulls a little left is all I need fixed, and more track days this year so my 17" Enkei's will be the wheels this year, next year I'll get those KUMHO V710 ( http://www.kumhotire.ca/tires/details.php?line=1&cat=8&ptn=V710 - http://www.kumhotire.ca/tires/details.php?line=1&cat=8&a mp;ptn=V710)
Or the V700'S which are a 50 treadwear and have tread wear I can drive to and from and not get busted:)
-------------
Brian (Bassman)
86 GT Fastback 3.2L
2013 Mazda3 Sport GS SkyActive
[IMG]http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u243/Bassman68/BassmanSignature.png">
|
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 08 May 2010 at 11:34pm
Patrick wrote:
Dr.Fiero wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=494XLoEKxgI -
|
LOL! So long as he doesn't do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXQ03a14CGc - this , after all my hard work.
-------------
Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan.
|
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 08 May 2010 at 11:36pm
They do sound a little like BS, you're right. =P
-------------
Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan.
|
Posted By: Patrick
Date Posted: 09 May 2010 at 12:19am
Romeo wrote:
Car-2-Lo wrote:
They do sound a little like BS, you're right. =P |
They should. From the comments at YouTube:
"...it's Ministry FEATURING the singer from Butthole Surfers."
|
Posted By: Capt Fiero
Date Posted: 09 May 2010 at 9:42am
Bassman wrote:
lol...I am like John with all new, steering pulls a little left is all I need fixed, and more track days this year so my 17" Enkei's will be the wheels this year, next year I'll get those KUMHO V710 ( http://www.kumhotire.ca/tires/details.php?line=1&cat=8&ptn=V710 - http://www.kumhotire.ca/tires/details.php?line=1&cat=8&a mp;a mp;ptn=V710)
Or the V700'S which are a 50 tread wear and have tread wear I can drive to and from and not get busted:)
|
I like the sound of that Brain, (Next Year) congrats on deciding to keep your racing career alive.
-------------
Capt Fiero
88 Fiero GT 5spd V6
Eight Fifty Seven GT V8 5spd.
|
Posted By: Romeo
Date Posted: 09 May 2010 at 11:00am
Patrick wrote:
Romeo wrote:
Car-2-Lo wrote:
They do sound a little like BS, you're right. =P |
They should. From the comments at YouTube:
"...it's Ministry FEATURING the singer from Butthole Surfers."
|
Ah. I totally knew that. Whatever... lol
-------------
Never shift into reverse without a back-up plan.
|
Posted By: Car-2-Lo
Date Posted: 09 May 2010 at 11:58am
Bassman wrote:
Wow...I know I have not been around much, but I have had success with Dales, and taking almost 30 minutes
to read this post, I would give this guy a shot based on my car spec and the bonus that he's only 15 minutes away from me.
Dales know my car, I had one issue, but they bent over backwards, fixed the problem, then when I had to replace my upper ball
joints...only charged me $100 cash to do this. Now to me that's good business, but it has to go both ways...you treat people with
respect, 99% of the time you will receive this back and all parties can be happy.
Cheers... |
I had success with Dales too (loose lock nut) !
I had success with Mikes too (loose ball joint nuts) !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBFMLyZ23Wc - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBFMLyZ23Wc
I only had one issue with each shop LOOSE NUTS, no one bent over backwards (I even offered them cash), but UNFORTUNATELY when it only goes
one way, now to me that's bad business...I treated those shops with 110% respect (I even made a nice video, sure they're nice to you, only to find
00% back when they screw up (or should I say when they don't screw the nuts up))
and only one party is happy.
Here's the nice video I made... I did treat Mike with respect only to find he's to proud that he failed (to check loose nuts).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cpUKbD-D6g - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cpUKbD-D6g
Thanks Bassman for the tip, next time I'll try to be a little nicer
For the record: after all of that, I did apologize for the bashing and edit and cleaned up the thread, I only posted the facts without bashing anybody.
I still like Mike and his followers and again I'll take Bassman's advise..Oh I forgot, he's going to Dale's....
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